Re: [HAPS-L] A&P dual enrollment

["Charlene L. Hartlaub" <charlene.newby@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Parents!  What a help or what a problem they can be!!!  I agree that at
college-age a student should not have a parent intervene except in unusual
circumstances.  I had a student who failed A&P twice because she just didn't
put in the effort needed.  Her mother went to the trouble of finding out the
pass rate of A&P students in other colleges and then went to my dean to say
that I was not passing enough students; my standards were too high.

Unfortunately, he listened to her and I had to argue the merits of comparing
pass rates of schools who have D as a passing score and of us having a C as
a passing score.  Also, what was passing in the other schools?  78%?  70% or
60%?  He relunctantly took my part.

On the bright side, a few years later when he looked at the number of
students I gave A's, B's, C's, D's, and F's to, it formed a perfect Bell
curve!  He was delighted, called me into his office, and gladly told me the
good news.  (I didn't count the "drop" students in order to do this.  Since
many, if not most, drop for family reasons, moving, work schedule changes,
etc., I believe it is totally unfair to consider them in the pass rate.)

Charlene


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "SMITH, JANICE" <JANICE.SMITH@xxxxxxxx>
To: <HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: [HAPS-L] A&P dual enrollment



Some advanced high school students can handle the curriculum. Those not
capable can probably be screened out by some placement test.  TX requires
all students entering college to have certain high school exit test or SAT
or ACT scores, or they must take the state entrance exam. Students with poor
scores must take developmental classes.  We don't let anyone required to
take remediation take dual credit courses.

There are other problems to consider. Our college offers a variety of dual
credit courses and we've seen the following problems:

administrators and coaches coercing dual credit teachers to inflate grades
for certain students who aren't passing
parents demanding extra credit and / or softer curricula
inadequate time devoted to real labs vs. coloring book or other labs

If the students take the course on the college campus, there are fewer of
these, but the parent problem still persists. In fact, we are seeing more
and more parents of true college age students that just won't let their kids
fly on their own. Very annoying. Thank goodness for FERPA!

Janice Yoder Smith

-----Original Message-----
From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Peter Zao
Sent: Thu 1/5/2006 12:03 PM
To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [HAPS-L] A&P dual enrollment

Is there a HAPS position on dual enrollment (high school students
enrolled in college classes)?  High schools in our area would like to
teach A&P at the high schools and award those high school students
college credit for taking A&P.

My personal opinion is that high school students have not developed the
neural connections necessary to perform well in second-year science
(unless of course the content is watered down to the high school level).
I've had high school students attempt A&P and rarely are they
successful.

Peter Zao
Biology Department
North Idaho College
Coeur d'Alene, ID  83814
(208).769.3473
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