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RE: [HAPS-L] Dissection Alternatives
This happened to me once when teaching freshman animal diversity. We were to do dissections of freshly killed deaths-head roaches, and the lab tech decided that instead of using ether he would kill them with CO2 - having forgotten the reflex shutting of the spiracles under a CO2 atmosphere. A half hour after he left for the day, the roaches began to revive...
Not that anybody wanted us to 'free' them, but the objection to dissecting them was unanimous and vociferous.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Evans
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 7:11 AM
To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [HAPS-L] Dissection Alternatives
Trevor wrote: "Heck, the foundation work on RMP and APs was done with using the squid giant axon!" True but these days a lot of work on neuropharmacology is done on cockroaches (the American is a favorite species). Toxicologists have long used cockroach nervous systems for their research; I don't hear about anyone trying to free the 'roaches!
-----Original Message-----
From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Trevor Day
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:20 PM
To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [HAPS-L] Dissection Alternatives
Jason, thank you for your articulate post from the other side. I agree whole-heartedly with your perspective, and I'm only 35! Just to add to it, I think that younger students are still working out what they 'believe in', and much of it has likely come from their parents or from popular media. They can state that they vehemently disagree with the dissection of animals all they want, but I'd sure like to hear their rationale. I suspect that when pressed on the matter, they won't be able to defend their viewpoint vis-a-vis other 'crimes' like pet ownership, eating meat, cosmetic testing, medical research and wearing articles of clothing from animal products.
This is not to say that we can all be 100% consistent with our beliefs all the time, or that there aren't injustices committed against animals in the above list. I think an important part of their education should include learning to defend a viewpoint, and if they find it to be untenable, then to adopt another one that makes more sense in light of evidence or a sound argument. If a student approaches me about a discomfort with or philosophical objection to animal dissection, I would view it as a valuable teaching opportunity.
2 factors may add to this phenomenon:
(1) PETA and other such organizations get a lot of press these days.
(2) We pitch our courses, especially those aimed at health care and physical education students as 'human anatomy and physiology' courses.
This is potentially misleading. Aside from skeletal and muscular anatomy, the books we teach from are largely 'mammalian' anatomy and physiology books, with a 'human' title. Heck, the foundation work on RMP and APs was done with using the squid giant axon! I understand why this is done at the publisher level (I think) and am not making an argument for this to change. However, I do think we can do a lot to educate students about the contributions made in science and medicine from animal research as we teach. It surprises me to hear about biology majors that don't have a grasp on this. I'd like to see more texts address this topic in an introductory section. I often ask students how they think a particular picture or video was taken, or how an experiment may have been conducted to demonstrate a particular physiological phenomenon, and the answer very often has to be with invasive animal research and vivisection.
If we don't address the issue, then it is we as a profession that are at fault. Imagine what would happen to funding for the basic biological sciences if we let a whole generation of students graduate thinking we don't need animal research to make advances. Whether they are biology majors or not, they will certainly grow up to be leaders.
At very least, I don't think I would accommodate the student unless I had an articulate account of their objections in writing, thus forcing them to at least learn to make an argument and be accountable for their objections, and ask them to consider both sides of the issue in their written request. If a student wants to challenge the component of a course that was put in place by thoughtful, educated professionals, it is incumbent upon them to give us a good reason. I don't believe it is incumbent upon us to accommodate every special request because somebody perceives that they have a problem.
I look forward to the thoughts of others on this topic.
Cheers,
Trevor
On Wed, March 21, 2007 6:08 pm, Lapres, Jason H said:
> I've seen several posts that seem to support being flexible to
> dissection alternatives.
> 100% of the students that I teach are going into healthcare (no
> non-majors in my classes), so I would like to make a counterpoint to that extent.
>
> We do group dissections due to lack of funds, so if someone wants to
> only "watch" they can. However, if given the choice, I would require
> all of my students to actually do the dissection, and grade it. If
> the student chooses not to participate, they would also choose a zero
> grade, and deprive themselves of a great educational experience.
>
> Reasoning 1: manual dexterity and intestinal fortitude are vitally
> important in healthcare. I think students should find out if they can
> handle equipment and see guts BEFORE they get too deeply into healthcare.
> If they find out early, they don't waste time studying for the wrong
> career.
>
> Reasoning 2: if you let one student off the hook, you have to let them
> all off the hook, if they ask. The next thing you know, your school
> won't be doing dissections anymore. Word passes fast, and many
> students will do nearly anything to make college easier, if given the opportunity.
>
> That may all sound mean but, if I am in the ER and I see one of my
> former students approaching, I want to feel confident that I will be
> well taken care of. I always keep in mind that my students are going
> to be caring for someone's family someday. Secondly, times are much
> different than when "we were in school" and many students have much
> less respect for authority and themselves than we did. It is time
> that we start preventing this loss of educational quality.
>
> Can't call me old-fashioned, I'm only 30, with 6 years teaching
> experience. Maybe I'm just naïve. My guess however, is that some
> will agree with this.
>
> That is my cynical side.
> On the lighter side. If I taught non-majors, I would demonstrate the
> dissection and test with pictures.
>
> Jason LaPres
> Associate Professor of Biology
> Human Anatomy and Physiology
> North Harris College
> 2700 WW Thorne
> Winship 210E
> Houston Texas 77090
> 281-618-7132
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Tom Lehman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:38 PM
> To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [HAPS-L] Dissection Alternatives
>
> Amy,
>
> A few times, I've had students who haven't wished to participate in
> the dissections. Most often, they're content to simply observe from a
> distance or busy themselves with other parts of the exercise.
> However, I inform them that they'll need to observe the dissected
> specimens in the lab practicals. I haven't had a problem yet.
>
> I'm now teaching at a college with a considerable Native American
> population. There are apparently some cultural concerns about certain
> animals being used for dissection, so I'm trying to learn about this
> just as you are in preparation for when faced with this dilemma. Nina
> has some good ideas in her email. I'll be curious to read what others
> think.
>
> Tom Lehman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Amy Troyer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 12:01 PM
> To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [HAPS-L] Dissection Alternatives
>
> I'm curious as to how you handle student who are "philosophically"
> against
> animal dissection in you A&P class.
>
> We do not have cadaver lab, but do various dissections (rat, sheep
> brain, fetal pig, pig heart etc.). In the 5 years I've been teaching
> I haven't had a student refuse to at least observe during the
> dissections. However, I
>
> have an incoming student for next fall who has made it clear that she
> would be unwilling to dissect animals.
>
> Do you make exceptions? If so how do you determine who is allowed to
> be
>
> exempt and how are they held responsible for the material they miss
> during the dissections?
>
> Thanks for your input,
>
> Amy Troyer
> Lancaster General College of Nursing
>
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--
Trevor Day
PhD Candidate
Physiology and Biophysics
Faculty of Medicine
University of Calgary
taday@xxxxxxxxxxx
(403)220-4528
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