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RE: [HAPS-L] How far does copyright go?
Jim,
I use Histoweb and LUMEN (Loyola U. Med School) every semester - but you
will notice that every one of their images bears a copyright. And I can
give you another link where nearly every typical model in an anatomy or
A&P lab is displayed along with javascripted popup labels. I trust
that the JayDoc and LUMAN website people know what all of the
ramifications of their site might be. The other site people may be
lacking appropriate permissions - they don't state, anywhere that I
could find, that the images are used with permission - the models are
copyrighted.
If my students find the site, so be it. I'm not going to give it to
them.
I do not furnish my students with the link to the second site, in part
because I use the same or similar models for my practicum portions of
courses. I think that reduces the quality of the test and the depth of
their learning and understanding. We have banned any photography of
models and other copyrighted materials from our lab - students who are
caught are withdrawn from the lab course by the dean. Part of the
motivation for it is examination-based; the remaining motivation comes
from copyright issues and universities do not wish to bear the costs of
litigation.
As a webmaster for almost 15 years, I appreciate when someone emails me
to ask if it is okay to link to my sites. That is common courtesy. I
can't stop anyone from linking to the sites of course regardless of
their end-use intentions. But the images that are displayed there are
all copyrighted and so stated. And I can write javascripts until I am
blue in the face to disable right-mouse clicks to save the pictures -
but anyone with any savvy can copy anything from any site.
No fight or antagonism intended here, Jim!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Murray
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 11:32 AM
To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [HAPS-L] How far does copyright go?
On Apr 19, 2007, at 8:08 AM, Rawding, Robert S wrote:
> with them; others do not. I think the webmaster should let people
> know
> that the images are 'free for the taking' but we can't assume that a
> priori.
I am not advocating that anyone "take" the images. I think it is
fully legitimate for students to view images on their computer. I
don't think this presses the definition of fair use or academic
integrity. It is possible that the people that put the image on the
web did not have copyright, but that is a separate issue and not part
of what I am advocating.
> As far as the second aspect, letting people know the links, I'm not
> sure
> that there is any legal issue, because, again, we do not know if the
> images are at those locations are public-domain, free, or there with
> permission. I think it is better to contact the web site's author and
> ask. That way everything is clear.
I don't think it is necessary to contact the author of a web site
before linking to that web site. I don't think it really the
responsibility of the one who makes the link, the ensure that the
linked website has followed all copyright law. Of course, if one
knows that the linked website has infringed copyright, then perhaps
it is unethical to link to it.
> I guess it would be analogous to those services that sell term papers.
> The business is, I guess, somewhat 'legitimate' - the spirit of the
> law
> or the letter of the law, well, I'm not sure, but from an academic
> standpoint it really presses the definition of fair use and academic
> integrity.
I don't think it is analogous at all. If the owner of some
educational images places those images on the web, then those images
are clearly put there to be viewed by the public. If my students
receive a weblink/url from me, and they then visit that website and
learn something from those images, then I can not see how that is
lacking in academic integrity.
Are you saying that it is not legitimate to direct one's students to
sites like HistoWeb?
http://www.kumc.edu/instruction/medicine/anatomy/histoweb/
>
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
> Behalf Of Jim Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:52 PM
> To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [HAPS-L] How far does copyright go?
>
> Maybe we have a misunderstanding. It seems to me if the images were
> put on the web by their legitimate copyright holders, then they are
> clearly meant for public viewing. In that case, I don't see why
> making a list of links to those publicly available images would be a
> violation of the letter or spirit of the law, or even "disrespectful"
> of the works.
>
> Or maybe I don't get your point. What exactly do you think is not ok?
>
> James A. Murray
> Assoc. Prof., Department of Biology
> 156 Lewis Science Center
> University of Central Arkansas
> Conway, AR 72035
> PH: 501-450-5923
> FAX: 501-450-5914
> mailto:tritoniadiomedea@xxxxxxx
> http://www.uca.edu/biology/faculty_details_comp.php?user_id=28
>
>
> On Apr 18, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Rawding, Robert S wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> Then this makes students still think it's okay - which it is not. We
>> need to pride ourselves on respecting these works. And "already
>> there"
>> I don't think conveys the message that students need to receive. The
>> means doesn't justify the end, methinks.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Jim Murray
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:10 PM
>> To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [HAPS-L] How far does copyright go?
>>
>> If the images are on the web already, one could make a web page with
>> links to all of the images, and share the links page with your
>> students. That would avoid copyright infringement.
>>
>>
>> James A. Murray
>> Assoc. Prof., Department of Biology
>> 156 Lewis Science Center
>> University of Central Arkansas
>> Conway, AR 72035
>> PH: 501-450-5923
>> FAX: 501-450-5914
>> mailto:tritoniadiomedea@xxxxxxx
>> http://www.uca.edu/biology/faculty_details_comp.php?user_id=28
>>
>>
>> On Apr 18, 2007, at 4:41 PM, Alan wrote:
>>
>>> Steve-
>>>
>>> What you propose is exactly what is forbidden: Publishing the
>>> works of
>>> others without permission! Don't do it. It's called piracy.
>>>
>>> The indemnity is all yours. Zane State will not pony up, I
>>> guarantee.
>>>
>>> -Alan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/18/07 5:01 PM, "Steve Kish" <Skish@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I recently broached that subject concerning the development
>>>> of an
>>>> online pathophysiology course. We currently have one, but it is
>>>> severely lacking in visual examples. The suggestion was made that
>>>> "we"
>>>> find images on the web, burn them to a CD, and then distribute the
>>>> CD to
>>>> go along with the course content.
>>>
>>>
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> ==========================================
> To manage subscription,send email from the
> subscription address to
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>
> To unsubscribe from HAPS-L,
> put : unsubscribe HAPS-L,
>
> (2)To subscribe from a different address,
> put : subscribe HAPS-L your_full_name
> =========================================
> ==========================================
> To manage subscription,send email from the
> subscription address to
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>
> To unsubscribe from HAPS-L,
> put : unsubscribe HAPS-L,
>
> (2)To subscribe from a different address,
> put : subscribe HAPS-L your_full_name
> =========================================
==========================================
To manage subscription,send email from the
subscription address to
imailsrv@xxxxxxxxxxx and in MESSAGE (1)
To unsubscribe from HAPS-L,
put : unsubscribe HAPS-L,
(2)To subscribe from a different address,
put : subscribe HAPS-L your_full_name
=========================================
=========================================To manage subscription,send email from the
subscription address to
imailsrv@xxxxxxxxxxx and in MESSAGE (1)
To unsubscribe from HAPS-L,
put : unsubscribe HAPS-L,
(2)To subscribe from a different address,
put : subscribe HAPS-L your_full_name
=======================================