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Re: [HAPS-L] How far does copyright go?

I use Histoweb and LUMEN (Loyola U. Med School) every semester - but you 
will notice that every one of their images bears a copyright.
OK, so it seems you don't object to providing links in principle, as long as they link to pages that have claimed to have followed copyright law. Fair enough.
As a webmaster for almost 15 years, I appreciate when someone emails me 
to ask if it is okay to link to my sites.   That is common courtesy.
I have been using the web since the beginning (but posting only for 10 yrs), and I did not know this was common courtesy. It never occurred to me that a web author might object to some people visiting their websites. I had assumed if a site were not password or otherwise protected, that it was intended for public use. 



No fight or antagonism intended here, Jim!
Sure, I just wanted to suggest that it is not unethical to link to sites, even if one does not know for sure if the images were posted on the web legally. Maybe it is unethical, and if so that implies that the instructor that provides those links should take responsibility to investigate the websites for copyright violations. 

I think this is a useful discussion.




-----Original Message-----
From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Murray
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 11:32 AM
To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [HAPS-L] How far does copyright go?

On Apr 19, 2007, at 8:08 AM, Rawding, Robert S wrote:

with them; others do not.   I think the webmaster should let people
know
that the images are 'free for the taking' but we can't assume that a
priori.


I am not advocating that anyone "take" the images.  I think it is
fully legitimate for students to view images on their computer.  I
don't think this presses the definition of fair use or academic
integrity.  It is possible that the people that put the image on the
web did not have copyright, but that is a separate issue and not part
of what I am advocating.



As far as the second aspect, letting people know the links, I'm not
sure
that there is any legal issue, because, again, we do not know if the
images are at those locations are public-domain, free, or there with
permission. I think it is better to contact the web site's author and 
ask.  That way everything is clear.


I don't think it is necessary to contact the author of a web site
before linking to that web site.  I don't think it really the
responsibility of the one who makes the link, the ensure that the
linked website has followed all copyright law.  Of course, if one
knows that the linked website has infringed copyright, then perhaps
it is unethical to link to it.
I guess it would be analogous to those services that sell term papers. 
The business is, I guess, somewhat 'legitimate' - the spirit of the
law
or the letter of the law, well, I'm not sure, but from an academic
standpoint it really presses the definition of fair use and academic
integrity.


I don't think it is analogous at all.  If the owner of some
educational images places those images on the web, then those images
are clearly put there to be viewed by the public.  If my students
receive a weblink/url from me, and they then visit that website and
learn something from those images, then I can not see how that is
lacking in academic integrity.

Are you saying that it is not legitimate to direct one's students to
sites like HistoWeb?
http://www.kumc.edu/instruction/medicine/anatomy/histoweb/







Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Murray
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:52 PM
To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [HAPS-L] How far does copyright go?

Maybe we have a misunderstanding.  It seems to me if the images were
put on the web by their legitimate copyright holders, then they are
clearly meant for public viewing.  In that case, I don't see why
making a list of links to those publicly available images would be a
violation of the letter or spirit of the law, or even "disrespectful"
of the works.
Or maybe I don't get your point. What exactly do you think is not ok? 

James A. Murray
Assoc. Prof., Department of Biology
156 Lewis Science Center
University of Central Arkansas
Conway, AR  72035
PH: 501-450-5923
FAX: 501-450-5914
mailto:tritoniadiomedea@xxxxxxx
http://www.uca.edu/biology/faculty_details_comp.php?user_id=28


On Apr 18, 2007, at 7:18 PM, Rawding, Robert S wrote:


Jim,
Then this makes students still think it's okay - which it is not. We 
need to pride ourselves on respecting these works.   And "already
there"
I don't think conveys the message that students need to receive. The 
means doesn't justify the end, methinks.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:HAPS-L-owner@xxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Jim Murray
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:10 PM
To: HAPS-L@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [HAPS-L] How far does copyright go?

If the images are on the web already, one could make a web page with
links to all of the images, and share the links page with your
students.  That would avoid copyright infringement.


James A. Murray
Assoc. Prof., Department of Biology
156 Lewis Science Center
University of Central Arkansas
Conway, AR  72035
PH: 501-450-5923
FAX: 501-450-5914
mailto:tritoniadiomedea@xxxxxxx
http://www.uca.edu/biology/faculty_details_comp.php?user_id=28


On Apr 18, 2007, at 4:41 PM, Alan wrote:


Steve-

What you propose is exactly what is forbidden: Publishing the
works of
others without permission! Don't do it.  It's called piracy.

The indemnity is all yours. Zane State will not pony up, I
guarantee.

-Alan


On 4/18/07 5:01 PM, "Steve Kish" <Skish@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



     I recently broached that subject concerning the development
of an
online pathophysiology course.  We currently have one, but it is
severely lacking in visual examples.  The suggestion was made that
"we"
find images on the web, burn them to a CD, and then distribute the
CD to
go along with the course content.



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